Transcript of 61st Session between Charles Balis, M.D. and Ms. Anna Green, Thursday, November 6, 1997 at 4:00 pm.

Dr. Balis: Hello, Anna. Please come in.
Ms. Green: Hello, Doctor.
Dr. Balis: How was your week?
Ms. Green: Fine.
Dr. Balis: We started a very interesting discussion during our last session, and I would like to pick up where we left off.
Ms. Green: Hmm.
Dr. Balis: I know that you're not particularly interested in talking about that--you made that clear when you rushed out of here last time. But I think it's important that we talk about your feelings regarding Martin and Kathy.
Ms. Green: I was just overreacting, Doctor. Maybe it was PMS.
Dr. Balis: Perhaps, but I would still like to continue our conversation.
Ms. Green: I don't know what more to say.
Dr. Balis: Well, let's talk about the relationship between Martin and Kathy.
Ms. Green: Hmm.
Dr. Balis: How does Martin feel about Kathy?
Ms. Green: He likes her, of course.
Dr. Balis: Of course. And what else?
Ms. Green: He cares for her, he wants her to be happy. He likes to spend time with her. Doctor, I just don't know what you really want me to say.
Dr. Balis: Is Martin in love with Kathy?
Ms. Green: I don't know. I suppose so.
Dr. Balis: Did he ever tell you or her that he was in love with her?
Ms. Green: I suppose so.
Dr. Balis: But you don't know?
Ms. Green: I don't think I ever heard him use those words before.
Dr. Balis: Did he use them with you?
Ms. Green: Oh, many times.
Dr. Balis: But not with Kathy?
Ms. Green: I don't know. I'm not his keeper. He can say whatever he wants to her.
Dr. Balis: Don't get defensive, Anna. I'm just asking simple questions.
Ms. Green: Yeah.
Dr. Balis: Did you ever hear Kathy confess her love for Martin?
Ms. Green: She talks about loving Martin and me all the time. She's very mushy that way.
Dr. Balis: But Martin never responds to her by saying, "I love you too, Kathy."
Ms. Green: He might. I don't pay that much attention to that--it's all just talk.
Dr. Balis: So do you believe that Martin doesn't love Kathy?
Ms. Green: He doesn't...I just don''s not the same...
Dr. Balis: Go ahead. What are you trying to say?
Ms. Green: I don't think he feels the same kind of passion toward Kathy as he does toward me. But all our feelings are different. You should know that each love we experience is different from the others we might have had during our lives, Doctor. So it's not at all strange that Martin's feelings for me are different from his feelings for Kathy. It would be strange if that wasn't true.
Dr. Balis: Hmm.
Ms. Green: I think I was genuinely in love with Bill. But my feelings of love for him are completely different from the love I feel for Martin. So it naturally follows that Martin feels one way toward me and another toward Kathy.
Dr. Balis: Naturally.
Ms. Green: And I'm sure that Kathy feels different emotions for me than she does for Martin. That's just how human beings work.
Dr. Balis: I see.
Ms. Green: And I feel differently about Martin than I do about Kathy.
Dr. Balis: Tell me about that difference.
Ms. Green: It's like there are different shades of red. There's very bright red, and then there's more purply red, and there's orange-like red, and so on. There are millions of shades of red. Some are so close together that you can't even tell them apart. But they are different nonetheless. You could test them with spectrometer--the reflected light would be of a different wavelength.
Dr. Balis: I understand your analogy. But can you be a bit more specific about your feelings?
Ms. Green: I don't know if I can.
Dr. Balis: Try.
Ms. Green: Well, I think of Martin differently than I think of Kathy.
Dr. Balis: That would be more purply or more orange-red?
Ms. Green: Doctor!
Dr. Balis: I'm sorry. Tell me about the difference in your thinking between Martin and Kathy.
Ms. Green: Well, Martin is a guy.
Dr. Balis: Yes.
Ms. Green: And because of that, I can think of him as a future partner in a way that I can't think of Kathy.
Dr. Balis: You mean you can imagine marrying Martin in the future?
Ms. Green: Right. But with Kathy, I know it's just a temporary thing. Someday, it will be over, and I'll get on with my real life.
Dr. Balis: Real life?
Ms. Green: I'll get married, have a house, have a few kids, go to PTA meetings--all the things that my parents did when they settled down.
Dr. Balis: So by real life you mean something very traditional.
Ms. Green: Exactly. And despite all the sexual revolution and social acceptance of alternative ways of life, I just can't picture myself being a sixty year old lesbian living with Kathy.
Dr. Balis: I see. So you consider your relationship with Kathy as a homosexual relationship?
Ms. Green: Don't you?
Dr. Balis: Do you have a homosexual relationship with Kathy?
Ms. Green: You mean sex?
Dr. Balis: Yes.
Ms. Green: I already told you that Kathy and I did it. Well, sort of did it.
Dr. Balis: You mean you still didn't reciprocate...
Ms. Green: No, I didn't. But it's not what you think.
Dr. Balis: What do I think?
Ms. Green: You think that I'm trying to avoid reciprocating sexually with Kathy.
Dr. Balis: Are you?
Ms. Green: No. It's just worked out that way. I was sick, and she was sick. Then her aunt was sick, and she was gone.
Dr. Balis: And last week?
Ms. Green: Last week, I had my period. That's what I was telling you in the beginning--I was just majorly PMSing during our last session. I bet if I walked in on Martin and Kathy doing it this week, it would have hardly bothered me.
Dr. Balis: Hardly? You think so?
Ms. Green: Sure. I did move in with both of them, Doctor. I knew that they would make love to each other even when I'm not around. That's okay.
Dr. Balis: Is it?
Ms. Green: If it wasn't okay, I wouldn't have agreed to be part of this relationship. Why are you torturing me today, Doctor? Did I do something to you?
Dr. Balis: I'm not torturing you, Anna. I'm simply trying to understand your relationship with Martin and Kathy and how you feel about them. That's all. There's no torture component to my questions.
Ms. Green: I'm feeling those little arrows...oh, never mind. I guess I'm tired--too many hours at work.
Dr. Balis: Are you working overtime?
Ms. Green: No, not really. It just feels like that. It's always hard at the beginning of new projects, before the scope of work has been defined.
Dr. Balis: I see.
Ms. Green: So please be nice to me, Doctor. I'm stressed as it is.
Dr. Balis: Hmm.
Ms. Green: And honestly, everything is great in my relationship with Martin and Kathy. They can fuck all they want without me, it doesn't bother me.
Dr. Balis: Hmm.
Ms. Green: Just because Kathy changed her schedule from mornings to nights to be at home more...never mind.
Dr. Balis: Do you get to spend more time with Kathy because of her new schedule?
Ms. Green: Well, Martin and I used to have the mornings to ourselves. We got up much later than Kathy and ate breakfast together--just me and him sipping Pete's coffee around our kitchen table. We used to talk and share our dreams. It was a very special time for us.
Dr. Balis: Can't you do the same with Kathy there?
Ms. Green: It's different. We no longer can have conversations about our future potential. Somehow it just doesn't feel right with Kathy there.
Dr. Balis: Does Kathy want to talk about the future?
Ms. Green: Yes. But I don't want to anymore.
Dr. Balis: I see.
Ms. Green: And I think Martin is more reserved, too.
Dr. Balis: So Martin doesn't like Kathy being there in the mornings also?
Ms. Green: He says he does.
Dr. Balis: But you don't believe him?
Ms. Green: I don't know, Doctor. I want to stop now. It's time to go home.
Dr. Balis: Hmm. All right. We can stop.
Ms. Green: I'll see you next week, Doctor. And...
Dr. Balis: Yes?
Ms. Green: I'll choose the topic of our therapy session next time.
Dr. Balis: Hmm.
Ms. Green: Have a good week.
Dr. Balis: Goodbye, Anna.
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